Thank you for sharing your thoughts on grieving, living in between denial and resignation. Did you know that Aristotle in the Nichomachean Ethics (the staple text for Virtue Theory) says that every virtue is the golden mean between two extremes. For instance, courage is the golden mean between cowardice and hubris. I wonder if “acceptance/awareness” or “lucid contentment” is the virtue between denial and resignation. I write “lucid” because I fear too many “Christians” are content without any awareness.

Nice observations about women in ministry and fashion. That may needs it’s one post soon.

Regarding your question in the Unmuted article suffice it to say that we’re in the process of revising and updating this article to reflect our more recent views. Glad you read so closely, you’re keeping us on our toes!

I thought I’d throw a question out there, though off-topic. I read most of Dale and your article on allowing women to speak. The comment that you are not wanting to change the traditional role of male pastors confused me. Perhaps partially b/c I know you are egal, it seemed I could read that section more than one way, and this may have been a matter of diplomacy. Are you saying you do not want to change any particular church or denomination in regard to their views, that you are not demanding a woman in the pulpit where a man is doing well, or that you agree w/ the male pastor view and do not want to see women as senior pastors and would rather only see them as auxiliary speakers?

Feel free not to touch that one in this thread if too off-topic.

Deb

You might find the latest post at the CBE blog scroll interesting on this front….

As for grieving, I suppose I’ve done it a lot and gradually. It helped once I had specific diagnoses, which took awhile. But I’m not putting that old body in the grave. I’ve been sick ever since I was wrapping up college and have not been able to do any of the things God has called me to do, as illness has prohibited even the basic normal life. I can write some but none of the other things that He’s spoken to me about since I was 4 yrs old. So I am anticipating healing. Living in the limbo, neither in denial nor resignation is admittedly tricky.

Btw, having lived in the NE, the midwest, and the mid-South, I would not say that the look is overly regionally specific. Now there are some things, like the Tammy Faye Baker look that may be specific to a certain belief system w/in Christianity. And some denominations show a huge difference according to location, it seems. But I find plenty of it everywhere and diversions from it where you might not expect. (Both of the churches I’ve been involved in here in Tenn. have very simple pastor’s wives, though they are the rarity in town. Most of the churches I’ve been involved in up north have spiffy-polished leading women, though they may not represent the region as a whole. A couple had male-suits-in-a-different-color women playing it safe and respectable in an arena that demands so much of them. One has a pastor’s wife whom I’ve routinely found highly distracting b/c her clothing seems to drip sex appeal to my eyes; I’ve not said anything about it to any congregant but might have said something to her if I knew her well.)

Blessings,
Deb

I went to a prenatal yoga class to try it out yesterday and felt very healthy and fit when I was sitting among my pregnant peers. We all have unique and beautiful ways of carrying our babies, all interesting!

I’ve heard other women explain to me their experience in similar words as “my body betrayed me” What an honest way to share the feelings of let down and judgment as we watch our body (always feels premature) fail us. What helps you grieve? What can others do to allow you to grieve?

I really appreciate your comment on how women can compliment each other on OTHER things than the unstable “You’ve lost so much weight!” compliment. I think Mary Poppins would call it a piecrust compliment, easily made, easily broken/lost.

I am also disheartened by the (regionally specific) emphasis on a certain “look” among ministry workers. I often wonder what my role as a Christian speaker is in helping break down the high expectations and cookie-cutter Beth Moore (forgive me) well-coiffed look. Do I need to be so accessorized and “put together”? I’ve decided AGAINST acrylic nails, for example for this reason: I do not want to perpetuate the myth that my hands are that perfect.

Thanks for your thoughts!
Jonalyn

I’d like to echo Debbie. It seems like the women I’ve known who have very low BMIs to start with often need to put on more weight than is suggested but then take it off readily. I’m all about science and am daughter to a scientist. However, I do think sometimes women know themselves and each other better than doctors who know their textbooks. Not everyone fits the statistical norms.

As for your question, that is a good one! I guess I’ve tended to think in terms of what *I* can do, what the media culture at large could do…

First off, I think I am doing pretty well w/ body image. My comment was more a compliment than a complaint, though it is clear I will never cut a figure with my undefined waist, etc., etc. I’m certainly healed of my venture into anorexia even if psychologists claim one cannot be. And it is helpful that men routinely find me attractive (although at 33, I could use fewer teens and approaching-50 men!! who have been my ongoing lot), not that it should be dependent on them.

For me, my body has betrayed me for years, as I am medically disabled with illness. This may be a more difficult hurdle psychologically than body image at large or my idea of what my healthy body was like. And a couple of years ago I had very sudden unexplained weight gain as part of it–weight that has only partially come off. So I am not at my “right” weight and cannot wear most of my clothes, and it is a frustration I have not been able to solve within the bounds of what my body dictates in illness.

I suppose as women one thing we can do is to step away from the body emphasis of our culture and dig deeper into the other parts of ourselves.

And perhaps it would be good to compliment honestly and often on features that aren’t constantly in flux (as weight is for so many, and so then may feel like the constantly moving measure of one’s value). I know that some of my friends have commented (and I used to be like them) that they seem unable to give compliments to others because of how vulnerable it makes them feel. If we were criticized often when young and not affirmed by parents it can feel like a risk to “give out” in this way, as though we need to be concerned about the return. I think providing encouragements may sometimes be a greater struggle when it is an area of particular insecurity and/or when you’ve been criticized so much that you are critical of anyone who is not a genius, supermodel, or whatever else it is that is the pinnacle for the given area.

On a side note, I know I am called to ministry, and I get more than a little perplexed at the dress and body and even tanning emphasis that seems so prevalent among pastors’ wives and female ministers. Part is congregations demanding it of them, using society’s more stringent measures of public women to determine if they will accept them, and part is, well, culture willingly and enthusiastically adopted by the women themselves as a key part of their representation of Christ…. I want to be a better steward of my money (when/if I have some) than some of these emphases require and don’t want to be dressed to the nine every day of my life. I can go there, but I’m a nature chick. Now that I think of it, I remember you covering this in a discussion of Aimee Semple McPherson.

I want to celebrate women’s bodies and their unique capabilities, recognizing that some of the primary life experiences of many women are very bodily, but obviously much of the attention has been unhealthy. Sometimes even appropriate attention to it can have triggers to all of the bad….

Just off the top of my head,

Deb