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When Virgins Marry
From as long as I can remember I’ve wanted to have good sex. I can psychoanalyze all the reasons, but to keep it simple, let me just say I heard sex was fun and I wanted to have a lot of fun.
So I bought this purity necklace with the words “Taken” on it and told everyone, and I mean everyone, that I was saving myself for my husband, or for God. I vowed to not kiss anyone until I was engaged and even then I pledged: no sex until marriage bedroom materialized.
This kept many men away, and it intimidated a lot of other good ones.
But when Dale and I met and married I found I was heartily glad that I hadn’t had sex with my fiancé who I was so sure I was going to marry one year earlier. We’ve been asked before how marriage has been us both being virgins.
Sometimes I’m asked about what constitutes a virgin. I recently brainstormed a list of sexual stuff with a group of teen girls, stuff they’ve heard you can do with a guy leading up to doing “it”.
hand job
feeling each other up
dry sex (humping with your clothes on)
blow job (but what if the girl is getting it? They hadn’t heard of cunnilingus, probably not offered on high school sex buffet)
I didn’t ask them what it meant to be a virgin.
The word is too contaminated.
Supposedly you can still be a virgin and have oral sex, get felt up and down, over and under your clothes, you can be a virgin during dry sex, and while “messing around” and “hooking up” whatever those terms mean at the moment. And you can still be a virgin, to some, even if you’ve had intercourse as long as the guy does not climax INSIDE.
Good grief! Are you freaking serious?
Virginity isn’t the Goal
So I’m asking another question, a better question. It’s not what makes a man or woman a virgin, but instead, what makes us pure. And this, by golly, is something to strive after before and after marriage.
What is pure? Think of a glass of clear water.
So, what taints a glass of water? that’s the stuff to avoid
Q: What taints a human body with sexual muck
A: any behavior that the relationship doesn’t warrant. This could be as “innocent” as a kiss too soon or a bathing suit cuddle too prematurely. Nowadays it means developing sexual innuendo or jokes with someone not my husband; it means noticing that what I wear teaches men how I treat my own body and how I invite them to engage me. It means watching who I text, how often I email them and if I fantasize about someone else during sex with my husband.
Purity begins with the belief that parts of our bodies are more sexual than others. In the prophetic passage in Ezekiel 23:2-4 God explains what harlotry looks like and it included (but was not limited) to some pretty explicit sexual “handling” (breasts, ahem bosoms, are mentioned). So I decided to keep the stuff beneath a bikini bathing suit off-limits. It became a line for me, a line in the sand.
That said, while dating, I didn’t make any other big rules. I did break my no kissing before engagement promise. And here’s the juicy part, I seriously entertained any activity that led me and my boyfriend to intimacy as long as I knew it wouldn’t lead to defilement. Another great, old-fashioned word.
Let me explain. The well-known “f” word does a good job proving sex can be a pillaging act, a taking and using sense, a rape of soul if not of body. I didn’t want to *&$@ around with any man I claimed to love, I didn’t even want to toy with him that way.
- Sex was easier than I expected. I was surprised I had made it to my wedding day a virgin.
- Sex felt normal and natural.
- Nakedness lost its stigma when I was with my husband.
As my grandmother of 80 years said to me years later,
”Me nina, when are you naked, when you’re not naked?”
“I don’t know, Mama Grace.”
In her Mexican accent she smiled and announced, “When you with yoor husband!”
Marriage was the door to sex for me and my husband. And because I’ve never known sex outside of it, I’m afraid I’m terribly biased about the power sex can have.
When virgins marry they get a chance to experience things together. That’s not to say sex can’t be redeemed, that honeymoons where raped women and men learn to know one another’s bodies and souls cannot also be stunning, amazing, vow-sealing.
Sexually Incompatible?
I’ve heard women and men concerned that virgins might very well be sexually incompatible.
Perhaps, but only if you believe that sex is something you’re either gifted at or not (like musical prodigies). But not if you think sex is something you can work at, get better at, finesse and fine-tune so you’re a pro, which I happen to believe is quite possible.
Also, I think it’s fairly easy to tell if you’re sexually compatible by being observant and honest.
I used to think I could tell when I kissed a guy if he would be good in bed. And now in my post-virgin state, I am convinced you can tell a lot about how a guy (or girl) will make love to you by how they interact with anyone they’re impatient with, delighted by, disappointed by, etc.
All emotions in regular life, like driving or standing in line or riding a roller coaster, also appear between the sheets.
Sex unites us, it plays out the vows we said almost ten years ago. Sex is also the place where all the hiding or frustration, excitement or creativity from a day get to come out and infuriate or dazzle. Which is, to say the least, revealing.
If sex is bad or sporadic, routine or hasty in your relationship, it’s not the only thing going poorly. If sex is good and hot and fun in your relationship, it’s not the only thing going well.
And you can tell a lot about the person you’re with and how much of themselves they have cultivated to give to you in bed, before you have sex.
God’s Law and the Tearing Along the Perforated Line of Reality
What guarantees a happy, successful, flourishing relationship?
Everyone has a list of ideas, the ingredients. What would you say?
God has a few ideas, too.
I trust God, which means that I really believe God’s rules do lead to a better quality of life (this doesn’t mean you won’t get cancer or live in poverty, but it does mean God will be with you given you peace, hope, patience, long-suffering and love) but you can’t pick and choose.
Some people save sex for marriage but have horrible sex lives. Why? I believe it is often the case that they’ve trampled other commands. They’re not believing their spouse is a wonderful person given to them by God, or they see their spouse as a means to an end, rather than an end in themselves, an image bearer of God.
You cannot save sex for marriage and then ignore other laws like love and kindness, meekness and justice and expect God to give you a wonderful satisfying relationship. The laws of reality or wisdom don’t work like that. You cannot save sex for marriage and then be a beyotch and expect a good marriage. 
Some people think all you need to have sex are romance and true emotional commitment. This has, after all, become the prevailing belief in our day and age. But here’s the problem as I see it.
a. If God says sex is an evidence of a life-long commitment and if . . .
b. You ignore this command and use emotional/romantic commitment to indicate when to have sex then,
c. You are choosing some of God’s values (love/emotional closeness) but ignoring that sex is part of a larger plan for intimacy, until death do us part enterprise that God seems to be for (1 Cor 6:18, 1 Cor 7:9 and my personal favorite out of the mouth of Jesus, Matt 15:19, notice he uses the word “fornication“). This is essentially . . .
d. picking the commands you like and dismissing the ones you don’t. But to choose some and not the others is capricious on our parts and not really trusting God.
My stance is that since God has shown himself trustworthy about everything in my life, I want to follow any ideas he’s offered about life, including sex, including pursuing purity up to and through marriage.
My body, my peace, my companion (Jesus) made it worth waiting for marriage. And now, my body, my peace, my companion makes sex worthy of preserving within marriage.
Currently God’s trustworthiness is my number one reason for not letting myself be tantalized by an affair. And it’s not always easy (see Lust 1 and Lust 2 for more).
Back to the original cultural temptation to use emotional commitment as a justification for sex, what keeps us from pursing illicit sexual liaisons? If I use this criteria of romantic/emotional connection as my trigger to permit sex, why not? If I feel more romantic and emotional connection with someone else, why be faithful?
We all need more than emotional/romantic criteria to govern sex.
Better, Married Sex
A guy who has lived with his girlfriend for ten years told me, “We’re better partners than lovers.”
“But you sleep together, right?”
He nods, bored with the question. He explains that he doesn’t want the financial entanglements and obligation of children that marriage packs in.
Might be a huge assumption, but doesn’t sound like he’s all that into her. Or is that unfair?
One thing that seems obvious to me: his sex life with her is not amazing. As studies indicate, it’s not the bachelors and bachelorettes who are having all the steamy, high-quality sex. It’s the happily married husbands and wives.
Married men report having more and better sex when married than when single/dating. While cohabiters report having as much sex as married men, their degree of satisfaction is lower. Sexual satisfaction (for men, and I’d argue for women too) is positively correlated with the degree of commitment men feel in their marriage. Which means the myth of the highly sexually satisfied bachelor is exactly that. (Van Leeuwan quoting, The Social Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices in the United States, 1994).
So when someone asks me, like they recently did on My Faith Hurdle, “Is it really wrong to have sex with my boyfriend, when we’re already committed to each other?“, I replied, Do you believe marriage would taint what you currently have with your boyfriend? …While I understand the gun-shy-ness, if that is the issue, wouldn’t that be MORE reason to not sleep together?… Marriage plays a role in legitimizing romance, at least it has in most societies for thousands of year… Marriage can offer a wide playground for sexual delight, it’s doesn’t have to be a prison.
Marriage, to me, is like the goal posts and boundary lines in a game of soccer. Playing soccer is like sex.
You simply can’t play as well without them.
And in my life, I want to play the game of sex well, really well.
Or to answer the teens and college students who ask me if it’s worth it to wait to have sex until you’re married, here’s my favorite answer, ”Depends on what kind of sex you want to be having in 20 years.”
Want more? go get Lewis Smedes’ book Sex for Christians.
* a portion of this post originally appeared at Breakfast Reading and My Faith Hurdle.
October 19th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
I appreciate ALL you wrote here, and I’m darn glad you spent the time writing it because I will pass it on, reference it, and use it for encouragement in my own friendships in dealing with students asking these very questions.
When two virgins marry…that’s the goal.
And the discovery is, for us, that after 11 years of marriage & coming into it as virgins, sex continually gets better & better, and–bear in mind–my husband & I enjoyed it from the very beginning. Heartily.
You don’t hear that one much from church leaders, generally speaking. But we SHOULD, we should be hearing it and letting the younger generation know that married sex between two people who kept themselves pure is not only awesome, but it continually gets better.
One thing we’ve said to teenagers we’ve taught in Sunday School through the years is this: the enemy/the world/Satan wants you to have sex before you get married, and the enemy/the world/Satan wants to keep you from sex after you get married.
Great, full essay on when virgins marry.
October 20th, 2011 at 9:59 pm
Thank you, Susan!
I agree, especially with the ability to love sex more and more as we grow into intimacy.
I’ve received a question on my FB all from a woman who I hope will re-post over here.
In case she doesn’t let me ask you about the deification of purity, do you think the Church has made purity a golden calf?
October 25th, 2011 at 6:49 am
Has the church made purity a golden calf?
As for our Christian church in the West, I just don’t know if it has or not, but I would be inclined to think not.
Here’s why:
To compare, I do not believe that Western Christianity makes a deity of “remaining a virgin” to the extent that the Muslim faith does. Without trying to start a culture war (or a religious one), I just want to note that former Muslim and now atheist Ayaan Hirsi Ali in her fascinating books “Infidel”, “Nomad”, and, tellingly, “The Caged Virgin: An Emancipation Proclamation for Women and Islam,” recounts how dangerous it is for a Muslim girl to lose her virginity, or even be suspected of its loss. It could and probably would cost her life. Virginity, therefore, is paramount to the religion. Paramount for the girl and paramount for the father/brothers who are to “take care” of the loss of the daughter/sister’s virginity in peril of their own salvation.
I don’t see Christianity in North America going to that terrible extreme. In my own church, for example, I see parents still in loving relationships with their older children (no longer in church) who are in sexual relationships with boyfriends/girlfriends. The person is more important than their action/sin. And the parents realize that, with active love and prayers on their part and without attacking their child either in violence or in indignation.
Calling for purity and bringing that discussion to the forefront with teenagers/singles/anyone does not necessarily equal deifying the issue. Sexual promiscuity, activity, and the question of purity are, after all, obsessively presented to us through various media every day. Since it’s already there, on our minds, let it be openly, even aggressively, addressed.
October 25th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
Susan,
Interesting comparison. True, we have not worshiped purity as many Muslims and Islamic countries. Point taken.
And I like how you’ve said we need to aggressively talk about purity (maybe not aggressively guilt kids into keeping it) since the current culture aggressively promotes promiscuity as a good road to health and happiness.
Here’s a monkey wrench: A large minority of Pregnancy Resource Care/Centers clients are women from Christian homes who are honestly afraid that their parents will kill them if they find out they’re pregnant. Why? They know that losing their virginity is the #1 cardinal sin. They know their parents would rather then take care of the unplanned pregnancy and continue the charade that they are still virgins, then keep a baby PROVING their sexual promiscuity. I’m so glad to hear of families that continue to accept their kids who are living with boy/girlfriends… but there are so many other family’s who are stiffly unkind and passive aggressively disapproving.
Might be an interesting discussion: why do Christians make virginity more important than gossip, lying, gluttony, idolatry, keeping the Sabbath holy? Why is it so much more shameful?
Is losing your virginity pre-marriage truly more shameful than gossip, for instance?
October 25th, 2011 at 5:44 pm
Right…I wanted to leave myself an ‘out’ to your question because I don’t believe I have the pulse on this issue, thus the “I just don’t know if it has or not.” It’s been a while since I’ve been a teenager
, and it’s been 11 years since I’ve been married. My kids are not yet teenagers. I’m a little in between, a little on the outskirts, for this hot topic, though Glenn & I have been teaching the teens in our church for five years.
In that teen Sunday School class, we’ve used a Pam Stenzel DVD (and she is awesome; she’s worked for years at a pregnancy crisis centre, talked with teens for years about the cost of sex; and she’s the child of a woman who was raped but did not abort) to help address the cost of sex outside marriage, and we’ve used Chip Ingram’s DVDs “Love, Sex, and Lasting Relationships” to give a more rounded view of relationships as a whole, though sex is addressed.
Looking at your last question, “Is losing virginity pre-marriage more shameful than gossip?”, my first response is not necessarily, Biblically speaking. Both are named as sin in the Bible.
But pre-marital sex has many more ramifications. There will be a spiritual fallout, a physical fallout, an emotional fallout, and a relational fallout. With gossip, I can see a spiritual fallout and a relational fallout, perhaps even an emtional fallout. Physically you’ll probably still be in the pink of health after a gossip session.
But, one doesn’t necessarily find 5-part DVDs about “The Cost of Gossip.”
Why not? (Some of our churches, sadly, could really use a study about that!)
…I feel badly for those girls who are made to heap another wrong on top of their first wrong. Their parents will have much to answer for.
October 26th, 2011 at 8:01 am
So glad you took on this angle of the issue. I think Christians do kinda deify purity, maybe not to some of the extremes that have been seen in Muslim culture. However, I remember being taught that sexual sin was the Worst sin for the reasons Susan mentioned above…it effects multiple areas of our lives and the lives of other people.
I do kind of cringe when people talk about purity. It is usually some christian music star trying to encourage young people but it always sits wrong with me. It is usually directed toward women. And, honestly, when I hear the word “purity” mentioned, I think of those fake, smiling, blond women who sit beside their husbands on those Christian tv shows and claim to be oh so pure and chaste.
Blech…so unrelatable.
So much of Christianity ends up turing into a list of “DON’Ts”. Which become really appaling to young people…now that it’s off limits, it becomes very appealing.
I just watched the movie “Paul” and there is a religious theme in it that is very sad if that is what people see as Christian. A woman is uber-Christian and suddenly discovers an alien and realizes there is no God and is so excited that she can cuss and have sex and do all these things she was avoiding. It is actually a really funny movie, Kristen Wiig plays the woman and is hilarious! But the message of Christianity as “do not do” this and that is so sad but probably true to most believers.
I love Susan’s message on “grey area” in Breakfast Reading. I think that this is where parents need to meet their children and discuss sex as not just “forbidden” til marriage but the real whys….it was never tempting to me to waver on this because I felt I’d had room to discuss this and realized that it held a real consequence (esp as a woman) and responsibility that I really only want to share with a committed man.
October 27th, 2011 at 10:07 am
Coryn,
I think many can relate to your words here. Yes, purity/virginity, often directed to women, too. It’s like 1/2 the story.
I need to see this Paul movie… Have you come across these videos? They address the same thing, but put together by Christians showing what JEsus WOULD have said if he was a shaming and blaming as we imagine or hear he was. They’re very funny, too.
Susan does make a great point about this in the Breakfast Reading post. My favorite line: “Gray areas take maintenance, communication, trust, and a lot of freedom in Christ.”
I’d love to hear from parents on how to talk about purity with children, from YOUNG ages. I think purity, like worldview, doesn’t happen in a weekend or a retreat, it’s something cultivated, lots of time, trust, maintenance.
It begins by pointing out to a two year old to not put his dirty feet on the table. Why? We want the table to be separate, special, pure, for our food.
October 30th, 2011 at 7:35 pm
Found another good quote about why sex in marriage can deepen pleasure. In context the author is speaking of how difficult fidelity in marriage is in our time.
“We say no to other potential sexual relationships, even when other relationships seem to promise a heightened sense of excitement and joy. But it means(s) saying yes to sexual pleasure that deepens and intensifies over time and to intimacy spacious and elastic enough o hold the lifelong hopes and struggles of two people who are both united and kept separate by their bodies.”
Honoring the Body by Stephanie Paulsell
October 27th, 2011 at 10:02 am
Susan,
Good to hear about Pam Stenzel, thank you for recommending. Appreciate your humility and perspective on this, too.
Nice point that sexual sin has more ramifications, yes I see this with Paul’s words that adultery is the only sin we commit “against our own bodies” interesting phrase, that! worth studying, fleshing out.
October 20th, 2011 at 11:38 am
Thank you so much for speaking to the soul issues of sexual relationships. I came in to my marriage of 5 years with a lot of advice from well-meaning Christians- that you should have sex a certain number of times per week in order to keep your husband fulfilled and prevent him from straying, that you should just do it and not necessarily enjoy it, that it is more for him than for you. This didn’t necessarily strike me as truthful, but being a virgin, I accepted that there was a lot about sex that I didn’t know. How surprised I was when my husband assured me that not only did he want sex to be good for me, but he only wanted it when we both wanted it! I was shocked, and it took me awhile to believe it. But aren’t you going to explode with desire if we don’t have sex a particular number of times per week?? I wondered. He was insulted by this. He assured me that just because he is male, he is not addicted to sex. This is a lie, we’ve decided, that both secular and Christian culture believes.
I also loved the part in your post about how other character attributes come out in love making. So very true. I could go on and on- wish we could have a face-to-face discussion about this!
October 20th, 2011 at 10:14 pm
Ditto ditto, Christine! My husband said something similar to me as I had also been indoctrinated as you were think of men as voracious sex machines with uncontrollable desires that I must fulfill to keep them faithful!
Lie 1 – men aren’t responsible for there desires
Lie 2 – women aren’t also hungry for sex
Lie 3 – men can really enjoy sex to the fullest even while the woman is checked out. ANY good lover will refute this one
Let’s list a few ways you can look for future good lovers by other things. Here are some seemingly non-sexual ones, that have big sexual ramifications.
Driving – if you can’t stand slow people and swerve to get around them chances a you won’t have the patience to wait for your spouse to orgasm in their timing!
Mom’s haircut – if you don’t notice when your mom gets a new haircut it’s possible you’ll miss when your spouse hints they want something different during sex, you may need more clear and explicit communication, “I love it when you . . . ”
Elderly – if you don’t want to know people even in their exasperating years, for example if you interrupt and can’t stand the way older people tell stories you probably won’t have the desire to invite the quirky and annoying habits of your spouse into your love life meaning your spouse will feel they have to be false or hidden in the most intimate places in your marriage.
More?
October 21st, 2011 at 8:06 am
Love this list. So interesting.
October 20th, 2011 at 5:35 pm
As always. Love your honesty and depth of perspective on this topic. It is deeply encouraging to me as I journey my single life and work on this purity idea for myself.
I was reminded as I read this that though I have worked hard to maintain purity in a physical sense (and by no means perfectly), there are other areas (thoughts, emotions) where I need to be more aware of where my limits are…it just clicked to me that if I get married one day that does not mean I will immediately stop having lustful thoughts or imagining myself attached or attracted to other men. Really good reminder, I am challenged to take a hard look at other areas that are not so pure.
I also wonder about the challenge of one’s sexuality as a single woman. I feel like it is a very neglected topic – maybe because it is awkward or there is no easy answer.
But as much as purity is encouraged…and as much as we are not purely sexual or ruled by it…I also cannot ignore that I am sexual and I have desires and energies that I don’t know how to suppress/express in a way that is healthy or “godly”.
I feel like the church says…well, just wait until marriage, and we are given no tools, no thoughts on how exactly that waiting should look. This was addressed a bit in the “Female Sexuality Panel” you were in (Which i LOVED by the way, those are discussions that need to be happening MORE!). I just feel like that is neglected and I feel a bit abandoned by the church. As if reading some bible verses will keep me from indulging sexual thoughts or acts.
I know you were married quite young and so perhaps had less experience here. I feel, as a 28 year old woman, who has felt a desire for sex since I was 13, really just left guilty for any ways I have expressed this but not left with any other options that acknowledge my sexuality. I know it is not an easy answer or discussion and yet I know TONS of women struggling with this issue…and women, in particular, are left in the dust. Men (as Christine mentioned in her response) are often seen as the ones struggling but women are supposed to be totally fine with no sex in their life. NOOOOT TRUE!
I wonder if you have any thoughts or resources on this topic?
October 20th, 2011 at 10:21 pm
Coryn,
Great great question! I’m hoping my therapist friends will chime in on this, but for starters lets tackle the big one.
Masturbation – is it wrong?
I don’t see that it has to be, especially if we can engage in it without lusting.
That said, is there other practical stuff we can do with pent up sexual energy besides masturbate?
Even though I as married young, I know the feeling of desire unfulfilled. Marriage throws enough twists and turns to give you this frustration though not without release eventually.
So from my limited experience I’d recommend
1- physical activity
2- inviting Jesus into that desire and asking him to turn it into hope instead of frustration
3- creating be it art, food, music
1 & 3 use much the same energy as sex does… And can help re-channel this good gift.
Speaking of which, have you read Rob Bell’s Sex God or Smedes’ Sex for Christians? both speak to this!
October 21st, 2011 at 3:22 am
”Marriage was the door to sex for me and my husband. And because I’ve never known sex outside of it, I’m afraid I’m terribly biased about the power sex can have.
When virgins marry they get a chance to experience things together. That’s not to say sex can’t be redeemed, that honeymoons where raped women and men learn to know one another’s bodies and souls cannot also be stunning, amazing, vow-sealing.”
Not to sound contrary, but you are terribly biased by the fact that you’ve never known sex outside of marriage. And I’m afraid that for some Christians who are not virgins (either by their own choice or not), sex perhaps has lost some of its glitz and glamour; is this the power you speak of? Here’s a question: how would you encourage a habitual fornicator, a rape survivor, or someone who has “done it” just once, to save sex for marriage? I’m led to think that the answer goes way beyond prizing “our” virginity, but rather valuing our relationship and holiness before God above all else.
Although I dislike quoting her because, for the most part, I disagree with her thesis that virginity in itself does not exist, Jessica Valenti makes a strong point in her book “The Purity Myth” that Christendom has idolized the concept of virginity throughout its history. Rather, I believe and agree with you, Jonalyn, that it is more important to consider what purity and righteousness before God is.
October 21st, 2011 at 5:39 pm
Aleshia,
I think an analogy would help us talk about sex better.
Many people see sex much like they see a sport, the more people you play with, the more often you play the better you get at it. This makes sense if only scoring (orgasm) is involved. It would be best to practice sex a lot and with lots of partners to get really good at the technique.
But since sex involves more than technique, since it engages body parts that are certainly private and often associated with shame, since intimacy, not merely technique is part of good, hot sex, since the best sexual experiences I’ve heard about involved more than a well- endowed man with great endurance or fantastic oral sex techniques, since the best, hottest, most enjoyable sex I’ve heard spoken of came from couples who’ve been together for quite some time, I(as David Schnarch, sexual therapist and author of Passionate Marriage, there is a direct correlation between great sex and cellulite:)), therefore, I want an analogy thathill iterates the necessity for intimacy and technique.
And I’ve landed in one: watercolors.
I see sex as more, not less, than a sport. Sex is like painting watercolors. I might like to dabble with other mediums, but to get really good I have to stick it out with the same watercolor materials even when they look boring next to some new pastels or (be still my foolish heart!) some graphic design programs. I have to pick up my same brushes and practice again and again to really know how the brushes behave in my hands. And I will be able to be free and bold and beautiful in my work…. (And in bed) if I stick with the same medium (and guy).
You cannot get good at sex by practicing on many others. You only get good at sex by creating a safe zone of mutual respect and regard, one that is protected by God as a realistic zone to conquer shame and fear.
That said, to those who are no longer virgins, I’d say the reason to stop making love until marriage is the same as to the virgins: if you want to enjoy good sex you need marriage to start the watercolor. Then, you can plan to begin working with the same brushes and paper without a switcheroo which requires you start all over in terms of intimacy and trust.
Is this making sense? Please let me know if Ive missed your question!
October 26th, 2011 at 5:14 pm
Aleshia,
I liked your question so much I’ve reposted it as my blog for this week. Go to “Sex: Idol, Art or Sport?” to respond.
October 21st, 2011 at 8:04 am
Thanks Jonalyn. I agree completely. I think it is possible to masturbate without lusting and not wrong. But it is also a tricky zone that can easily turn to lusting.
) but for intimacy, movement, expression of self…and creativity is a great way to do this. I have been considering taking a dance class (flamenco!) because I have a strong feeling it would fulfill my need to express myself, to create and to move and challenge my body that acknowledges my sexuality, my desire to enjoy my feminine body – the way it moves and sways – I feel dance might be a way to satisfy those desires that even masturbation cannot.
I remember you talked about inviting Jesus into your moment of struggle – you were catching the eye of a man in a restaurant and ended up seeing him as brother/husband/son etc. I have found this quite useful – not all the time – but it has often taken some of the urgency or overwhelmingness out of my emotion and provided a solace that I needed more than sexual fulfillment.
The physical activity and creative stuff make a lot of sense too. I think it is easy for masturbation to get habit forming almost…other options can seem less satisfying in comparison. But worth pursuing alternatives. Sometimes the desire is not just for sexual expression (tho sometimes it is
I have read Sex God – I remember really liking it but it was so chock full of interesting stuff I wanted to read again – and don’t recall it speaking to this – I will give it another read for sure.
And hadn’t heard of Smedes book – thanks so much, will look it up!
Thanks for speaking to this topic! It is freeing to me, to be more able to discuss it now – but I would have so appreciated more guidance on this as a younger person too. I lived and do still with so much guilt around the topic (which I worry could affect a future sex life, if it happens, as having guilt issues around sex is probably not healthy entering a marriage) – not supposed to do it but want to but don’t know how to express it – and it can lead to unhealthy paths if suppressed or neglected – I am glad there are more books and people like you at least speaking to this, these days.
October 26th, 2011 at 5:13 pm
Coryn,
You nailed it, it’s a very tricky zone. Masturbation can quickly become a leech, sucking out the power we have to do many things well. This is where Sex God talks about the power of unmarried people. Since, as Bell says, they are single, they have more capacity to do things without distraction, cf 1 Cor 7:32. Bell, contrary to my belief, actually believes virgin or celibate people have more sexual power in other areas since they’re not spending their sexuality in sex. Very interesting idea!
Yes inviting Jesus into my struggle (for readers this is part of post Lust 1 and Lust 2, search for this in top righthand box) has been very helpful for me and my soul’s peace. Correct, it removes both shame and therefore the urgency to slip into sin.
It’s a fantastic spiritual discipline to analyze the feeling that our culture basely describes as “horniness” Is that really all it is? Or is it, as you put it, a desire to movement, or creativity, or intimacy, or touch, or being known, etc.
Dance, cannot agree enough! Have you heard of zumba aerobics???
Now, stop reading and go get Smedes book. It’s gold.
February 7th, 2012 at 7:02 pm
Just ordered Smedes book. I had a conversation with a friend that made this topic so very real and full of importance again. Really look forward to Smedes book, reading the reviews it looks like it’s a bit different than the usual christian response to sex.
I heard from this friend (we went to a christian university together where many couples get married very young, in a bubble that is incredible not like real life!) that many people she knew who got married had terrible experiences. These women were basically getting raped every night, men had no idea of how to pleasure their wives, neither knew what was normal for sex and it sounds so disconnected and terrible and frightening and unhappy.
This girl has felt really repressed in this area and now has chosen to have sex with her boyfriend – who have been together many years and are in a very healthy relationship.
Though I still would choose to wait until I marry, I was reminded of the immense amount of gray area in this topic!
How do we speak this message to churches? How do we engage this idea of sexuality? It really disturbs me that the church is so afraid of this topic, leaves people abandoned and alone and in unhappy marriages, confused singleness and general guilt and frustration!
February 8th, 2012 at 10:17 am
C.J.
Sex for Christians, a wonderful book, neither trite nor customary (as I’m afraid the Driscoll’s book is bound to be), both bold and biblical.
I’ve had women write in to me with similar questions… their honeymoon was pretty rough and they now want to educate their friends beforehand.
I can’t speak highly enough of the value of study. Sex is like running a marathon, good to have some tips and training beforehand…
training, however, does not mean sexual experience. You’re not training for a marathon by running one every day.
You would enjoy reading the comments and question over at Soulation’s MyFaithHurdle.org on “Is Sex Before Marriage Really All That Wrong”
There are 63 comments… look around for mine and you’ll get an idea of what I think in terms of addressing this question in this day and age.
Glad you asked. I have a post slated to write for RubySlippers on Guidance for Virgins Before the Honeymoon.
Looking forward to working on it!
February 8th, 2012 at 10:25 am
Oh that is great, I look forward to seeing your thoughts on it! Agreed, I’ve been pretty disturbed from what I heard about the Driscoll’s book, some really unhealthy views around sexuality (and masculinity and femininity, at that!).
Haha love the marathon example, totally agree, I’ve thought very carefully about my choice to wait but so many people don’t see any in between. It is either virgin or just go for it and they see no other options! I even struggle with the whole purity word and expectation as it expects this sort of “white as snow” attitude around sex which NOBODY has (i.e. even thoughts and natural curiosity about sex seem excluded from this pure white purity that I think is an unattainable and leads to wrong attitudes about the whole matter)! Purity has alot more gray in in that this pure white I am told to be
I try to speak to that with women I know who struggle in that area. So appreciate your voice in this, it has really helped educate my own opinions, and provide even more substance and depth to the discussion.
Thanks as always!
February 8th, 2012 at 10:40 am
C.J.
Glad this has been a safe, free place to grow. I’m grateful to hear you say that.
A word on the “White as snow” idea about purity.
You’re correct that no one is white as snow
However, I do not think natural curiosity, study, question-asking and exploring destroy our ability to be pure as snow about our sexuality.
In other words, innocence is not synonymous with ignorance or naiveté. You can know a lot about marathons, for example, without having run one.
February 8th, 2012 at 12:50 pm
Hmm that’s a good point. I think it is redefining purity for myself a bit. I grew up with the impression of purity meaning you just shut down that whole sexual part of yourself (obviously impossible and thus really confusing). So, purity including what you said above is beautiful! Thanks for clarifying
March 7th, 2012 at 7:46 am
So what happens when a husband and wife are not having ‘great’sex? Kind of depressing and feels like a failure.
Married 15 years. Together 20. But we certainly pushed the lines of what it meant to be a ‘virgin’ when we were married. Technically we waited …but reading your definitions we DIDN’T!!
Can’t go back and change it now. So do we live in shame and discontent and dysfuntion?
Any advice?
March 7th, 2012 at 8:28 am
S.M.
Great question, so honest. Thank you for asking.
I do not think you must live in shame, discontent and dysfunction. I think you can change, in fact I know you can. However, it will take time and work and courage.
First, sex is (in my opinion) a microcosm of the entire marriage then the whole relational intimacy you and your husband have is related to the kind of sex you’re having. What kind of marriage would you describe yourself enjoying or not enjoying? Feel free to write me personally or respond here as you are comfortable.
Second, if your marriage is bright and unclouded in terms of emotional, spiritual, intellectual intimacy, perhaps sex feels boring. This is common. In fact, most marriages find the partners bored of sex. As one woman said, “Marriage is like a hot bath that once you get in isn’t so hot anymore.” Sex is much like any sport (it’s also much more) in terms of affecting your body and spirit. Tips, training, counsel and practice are key to learning aptitude and proficiency. We all get rusty or stuck in a rut if we don’t keep learning. I can recommend several books to begin tackling the how-to’s and becoming a great lover. The first will also address intimacy issues.
In order of importance
Passionate Marriage by Schnarch
She Comes First (for him) He Comes Next or Passionista (for her) by Ian Kerner
That said, your question has many layers. I would like to ask you more questions and talk further, but given the nature of your question, perhaps it would be better to talk about it more privately. Would you be willing to email me personally?
jonalyn@soulation.org
March 7th, 2012 at 10:59 am
Yes…thank you. I will gladly email you when I have a bit more time. Thank you so much.
Expect to hear from me soon.
March 9th, 2012 at 10:49 am
I emailed you Jonalyn.