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	<title>Comments on: Hearing from God: placebo or reality?</title>
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	<link>http://soulation.org/jonalynblog/2012/05/hearing-from-god-placebo-or-reality.html</link>
	<description>the sparkling connection between, faith, feminism and Christian womanhood</description>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://soulation.org/jonalynblog/2012/05/hearing-from-god-placebo-or-reality.html/comment-page-1#comment-5274</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2012 18:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soulation.org/jonalynblog/?p=2170#comment-5274</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Probably the greatest gift Jesus brought us through the New Covenant was His choice to take up residence in us. No longer can we &quot;stray&quot; from His presence. Who would want to live together in such intimate quarters, our hearts, and never speak to one another? He loves speaking all the time if we&#039;d but listen. What&#039;s a relationship without two-way communication? The Institutional church of our day has done a grave disservice to the people to teach that God only speaks through the Bible or those trained well in it. That&#039;s a bunch of BS, and I don&#039;t mean bible study :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Probably the greatest gift Jesus brought us through the New Covenant was His choice to take up residence in us. No longer can we &#8220;stray&#8221; from His presence. Who would want to live together in such intimate quarters, our hearts, and never speak to one another? He loves speaking all the time if we&#8217;d but listen. What&#8217;s a relationship without two-way communication? The Institutional church of our day has done a grave disservice to the people to teach that God only speaks through the Bible or those trained well in it. That&#8217;s a bunch of BS, and I don&#8217;t mean bible study <img src='http://soulation.org/jonalynblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jonalyn</title>
		<link>http://soulation.org/jonalynblog/2012/05/hearing-from-god-placebo-or-reality.html/comment-page-1#comment-5179</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonalyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2012 19:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soulation.org/jonalynblog/?p=2170#comment-5179</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Matt,

I resonate with the expectations language. I think you&#039;re correct to say the OT folks heard from God through priests, judges, prophets more often than directly, while NT folks seemed to have a more conversational engagement as the Spirit moved throughout the Jewish believers.  Passages where all of Israel is called &quot;a royal priesthood&quot; seem to point to the new way of God communicating (I Peter 2:5 &amp; 9).

Nevertheless, this 1 Peter 2 passage was the goal of the God of Israel for his people all along. See Exodus 19:6.

Every man and woman of Israel a priest of the God of Israel (accomplished in Acts 2:17).

But here&#039;s a potentially helpful distinction. My view is that these verses, both in the Old and New Testament are speaking to the Jewish people and their experience of the God of Israel.

As Gentiles, what guarantee or expectation can we have that this God of Israel will communicate in the same way with us?
Though we are grafted into the tree of Jesse, God may not speak clearly, history-changingly to us.

My communication with God focuses primarily on him telling me his of his abiding love, not him telling me to go free his people, as he told Moses.

I&#039;m not saying he couldn&#039;t, he just hasn&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt,</p>
<p>I resonate with the expectations language. I think you&#8217;re correct to say the OT folks heard from God through priests, judges, prophets more often than directly, while NT folks seemed to have a more conversational engagement as the Spirit moved throughout the Jewish believers.  Passages where all of Israel is called &#8220;a royal priesthood&#8221; seem to point to the new way of God communicating (I Peter 2:5 &#038; 9).</p>
<p>Nevertheless, this 1 Peter 2 passage was the goal of the God of Israel for his people all along. See Exodus 19:6.</p>
<p>Every man and woman of Israel a priest of the God of Israel (accomplished in Acts 2:17).</p>
<p>But here&#8217;s a potentially helpful distinction. My view is that these verses, both in the Old and New Testament are speaking to the Jewish people and their experience of the God of Israel.</p>
<p>As Gentiles, what guarantee or expectation can we have that this God of Israel will communicate in the same way with us?<br />
Though we are grafted into the tree of Jesse, God may not speak clearly, history-changingly to us.</p>
<p>My communication with God focuses primarily on him telling me his of his abiding love, not him telling me to go free his people, as he told Moses.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying he couldn&#8217;t, he just hasn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://soulation.org/jonalynblog/2012/05/hearing-from-god-placebo-or-reality.html/comment-page-1#comment-5155</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 May 2012 01:57:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soulation.org/jonalynblog/?p=2170#comment-5155</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, I&#039;m asking several different questions.  What expectations did OT Jews have of hearing from God.  Did they expect to have conversations?  My guess is that those who expected to hear new or specific revelation from God expected this through the prophets and priests.  

Should we expect a new level of communication in A.D.  Judging by the life of Jesus, he seems quite open to receiving and responding to whomever calls to him in faith.  He touched and healed and loved the whole gamut.  This seems to fit with Paul&#039;s description of the veil being lifted and the priesthood of believers in Hebrews.  I get the idea from these metaphors that our access and communication is more direct than it used to be.  

If these comparisons are accurate, I connect more with the former than the latter.  God seems to me to speak clearly and directly to specific people at specific times but I don&#039;t feel like I hear him.  It makes me wonder how &quot;new&quot; this current experience is.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I&#8217;m asking several different questions.  What expectations did OT Jews have of hearing from God.  Did they expect to have conversations?  My guess is that those who expected to hear new or specific revelation from God expected this through the prophets and priests.  </p>
<p>Should we expect a new level of communication in A.D.  Judging by the life of Jesus, he seems quite open to receiving and responding to whomever calls to him in faith.  He touched and healed and loved the whole gamut.  This seems to fit with Paul&#8217;s description of the veil being lifted and the priesthood of believers in Hebrews.  I get the idea from these metaphors that our access and communication is more direct than it used to be.  </p>
<p>If these comparisons are accurate, I connect more with the former than the latter.  God seems to me to speak clearly and directly to specific people at specific times but I don&#8217;t feel like I hear him.  It makes me wonder how &#8220;new&#8221; this current experience is.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonalyn</title>
		<link>http://soulation.org/jonalynblog/2012/05/hearing-from-god-placebo-or-reality.html/comment-page-1#comment-5153</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonalyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2012 19:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soulation.org/jonalynblog/?p=2170#comment-5153</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Matt,

I believe I see what you&#039;re getting at.  What age are we in and what expectations can we have of God speaking to us?

Do you think grumbling is related to hearing or not hearing from God?  

Do you think that now that the Holy Spirit has been promised as a seal or downpayment of God&#039;s presence we can expect to hear from God more than OT people&#039;s experience?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt,</p>
<p>I believe I see what you&#8217;re getting at.  What age are we in and what expectations can we have of God speaking to us?</p>
<p>Do you think grumbling is related to hearing or not hearing from God?  </p>
<p>Do you think that now that the Holy Spirit has been promised as a seal or downpayment of God&#8217;s presence we can expect to hear from God more than OT people&#8217;s experience?</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://soulation.org/jonalynblog/2012/05/hearing-from-god-placebo-or-reality.html/comment-page-1#comment-5146</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2012 21:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soulation.org/jonalynblog/?p=2170#comment-5146</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The two earliest Christian &quot;bestsellers&quot; -- *The Life of Anthony*, by Athanasius, and the *Confessions* of Augustine, both bear testimony that God speaks personally to individuals.  Athanasius and Augustine make the list of top-5 post-apostolic theologians, I would think, whether one is Orthodox, Roman Catholic or Protestant.

Reformed theologian Klaus Bockmuehl has a couple of survey chapters on God speaking in biblical and subsequent history in his 1990 work, *Listening to the God who Speaks.*]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The two earliest Christian &#8220;bestsellers&#8221; &#8212; *The Life of Anthony*, by Athanasius, and the *Confessions* of Augustine, both bear testimony that God speaks personally to individuals.  Athanasius and Augustine make the list of top-5 post-apostolic theologians, I would think, whether one is Orthodox, Roman Catholic or Protestant.</p>
<p>Reformed theologian Klaus Bockmuehl has a couple of survey chapters on God speaking in biblical and subsequent history in his 1990 work, *Listening to the God who Speaks.*</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://soulation.org/jonalynblog/2012/05/hearing-from-god-placebo-or-reality.html/comment-page-1#comment-5141</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 19:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soulation.org/jonalynblog/?p=2170#comment-5141</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tim&#039;s comment about the OT Patriarchs and NT Apostles has me thinking.  I wonder if these people should set our expectations?  Did the OT period offer the same personal access that this NT period offers?  Do the dozens of OT stories about men and women hearing from God suggest that we all should equally expect to hear from God at all times?  It seems to me that there is going to be a tendency to focus on the exceptional in any biography.

When I think of the unexceptional people I don&#039;t think of anyone who gets named in the Bible.  I&#039;m thinking more about those who are just listed as &quot;people&quot;.  They seem to be grumbling alot which I can sadly relate to.

More often than not, the &quot;people&quot; seem to turn to prophets and priests in order to converse or hear from God.  Were the prophets a sort of stop-gap measure?  Because no one else was trying to go directly to G-d?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim&#8217;s comment about the OT Patriarchs and NT Apostles has me thinking.  I wonder if these people should set our expectations?  Did the OT period offer the same personal access that this NT period offers?  Do the dozens of OT stories about men and women hearing from God suggest that we all should equally expect to hear from God at all times?  It seems to me that there is going to be a tendency to focus on the exceptional in any biography.</p>
<p>When I think of the unexceptional people I don&#8217;t think of anyone who gets named in the Bible.  I&#8217;m thinking more about those who are just listed as &#8220;people&#8221;.  They seem to be grumbling alot which I can sadly relate to.</p>
<p>More often than not, the &#8220;people&#8221; seem to turn to prophets and priests in order to converse or hear from God.  Were the prophets a sort of stop-gap measure?  Because no one else was trying to go directly to G-d?</p>
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		<title>By: Dale Fincher</title>
		<link>http://soulation.org/jonalynblog/2012/05/hearing-from-god-placebo-or-reality.html/comment-page-1#comment-5139</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale Fincher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 17:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soulation.org/jonalynblog/?p=2170#comment-5139</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Matt, I think she&#039;s right... it is a newer *evangelical* concept.  But it is not new to Scripture or church history.  It is new to evangelicals.

Evangelical tradition&#039;s view of Scripture (which was born from Fundamentalism before it), believed that once the canon closed, then God speaks no more.  For to speak was to reveal.  And to reveal means we would have more inerrant and infallible scripture than what was recorded.  This was in part a response to Catholic theology that says the canon is never closed for God speaks through the Church in &quot;progressive revelation.&quot;  The justification for this was Paul&#039;s statement that the &quot;church is the pillar and ground of the truth.&quot;  Interesting, Paul doesn&#039;t say Scripture is this pillar and ground.  I have a view on why this is so, but that would distract from the discussion.

That canon-closed-God-is-silent attitude continues to linger in some evangelical and in most fundamentalist churches and institutions.  In these places, you&#039;ll also find a de-emphasis of the Holy Spirit but to convict of sin (which, ironically, is God speaking new specific revelation about our own personal condition). 

These groups also stand up against the spiritual formation movement today.  They are suspicious of it.  Richard Foster was a forerunning in bringing evangelicals into this conversation, see &quot;Streams of Living Water.&quot;  He&#039;s had pushback for decades.  Dallas Willard is a larger voice in this... and also has warnings attached to him from the evangelical right.

Why these groups have a pre-motivation to be against God&#039;s speaking to us in intimate ways would be an interesting exploration.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, I think she&#8217;s right&#8230; it is a newer *evangelical* concept.  But it is not new to Scripture or church history.  It is new to evangelicals.</p>
<p>Evangelical tradition&#8217;s view of Scripture (which was born from Fundamentalism before it), believed that once the canon closed, then God speaks no more.  For to speak was to reveal.  And to reveal means we would have more inerrant and infallible scripture than what was recorded.  This was in part a response to Catholic theology that says the canon is never closed for God speaks through the Church in &#8220;progressive revelation.&#8221;  The justification for this was Paul&#8217;s statement that the &#8220;church is the pillar and ground of the truth.&#8221;  Interesting, Paul doesn&#8217;t say Scripture is this pillar and ground.  I have a view on why this is so, but that would distract from the discussion.</p>
<p>That canon-closed-God-is-silent attitude continues to linger in some evangelical and in most fundamentalist churches and institutions.  In these places, you&#8217;ll also find a de-emphasis of the Holy Spirit but to convict of sin (which, ironically, is God speaking new specific revelation about our own personal condition). </p>
<p>These groups also stand up against the spiritual formation movement today.  They are suspicious of it.  Richard Foster was a forerunning in bringing evangelicals into this conversation, see &#8220;Streams of Living Water.&#8221;  He&#8217;s had pushback for decades.  Dallas Willard is a larger voice in this&#8230; and also has warnings attached to him from the evangelical right.</p>
<p>Why these groups have a pre-motivation to be against God&#8217;s speaking to us in intimate ways would be an interesting exploration.</p>
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