*simultaneously posted at Christianity Today’s blog for women, Her-meneutics.
Elizabeth Taylor in Butterfield 8
I watched Butterfield 8 with my husband last weekend. Elizabeth Taylor won an Oscar for her role as the sexually abused and sexually addicted call girl that falls in love. Her story is precisely what I’ve heard on the road from girls as young as 12. Sexual abuse found them early and turned them into women who seem to be all “sex and devil-may-care” (Butterfield 8).
But sexually abused women are not the only ones who end up interested in sex.
Photo credit: Steve Baccon
A long-time playboy and artist of Laguna Beach once calmly told me, “Women are just as sexually dominant as men,” he paused, “Maybe even more.”
His opinion is not an anomaly, though it may strike you as odd. Five hundred years ago, these words could have been uttered by a priest.
In the Middle Ages, priests informed the laity that women were naturally more lustful, insatiable, and visually stimulated. Can you imagine that? Women were the horny ones. Men, the celibate priests taught, were the naturally spiritual and rational ones.
How times have changed. In our Christian subculture men are the visually stimulated, carnal ones. “Women give sex to get love” (Every Woman’s Battle). Shaunti and Jeff Feldhahn explain in For Men Only, “Your Body (no matter how much of a stud you are) does not by itself turn on her body” (P. 133).
Personally I beg to disagree.
A man’s body can turn a woman on… ask any woman about how she feels in Abercrombie and Fitch stores. Or ask the bride in Song of Solomon,
Like an apple tree among the trees of the forest,
So is my beloved among the young men.
In his shade I took great delight and sat down,
And his fruit was sweet to my taste (1:3).
Okay, you might say, but once the honeymoon is over and you’ve got kids and sleep deprivation? No woman sustains this kind of attraction to sex, not longterm. That’s why Playboy sells more than Playgirl. That’s why men talk about struggles with porn and women don’t.
Well, I have news for you.
The internet filter review from ChristianityToday.com documents 70% of women keep their cyber activities secret.
But, 1 of 3 visitors to all adult web sites are women. (source)
Women’s attraction to the male body is a widely experienced but little publicized reality. Crystal Renaud, founder of Dirty Girls Ministries shared in a New York Times interview last May on her own porn addiction, at age 10. She founded DGM to help women like her. Still skeptical? Just notice the posters on tween’s bedroom walls or the way they gush over Justin Bieber or the Jonas Brothers, not simply their music, but their bodies.
Several years ago, when I read, “The Naked Truth about Woman‘s Lust”, I felt, for the first time, like someone was finally talking about what I have experienced.
Lust, according to Jesus, is not merely noticing or feeling attracted to another man (or woman’s) body. Feeling that magnetic pull of interest and amazement is not the same as imaginatively stripping someone naked and wanting them in bed.
Lust is the desire to have sex with someone you have not married (Matthew 5:27-29, looking on another human with a desire to commit adultery with them in your mind).
I am one of those women who have found myself struggling with lust. I am not addicted to pornography, but I am distracted to lust after handsome (can’t I say “hot”?) men.
When a beautiful man or woman passes me and my husband on the street or monopolizes our time after a speaking event we both code awareness to each other. We use our eyes to say, “Yes, this is a beautiful body in front of me, but no worries. My appetite has been cultivated for you.”
This discipline didn’t start so easily.
I’ve learned to want my husband’s frame, his uniqueness. I’ve learned to seek that look, to develop a taste for his body and soul.
But I still notice beauty, in men.
Talking about the beautiful people around us allows my husband and I to both safely confess and grow into desiring each other. It also means our temptations are never faced alone.
Marne C. Ferree, a pioneering missionary for women’s sexual addiction recover, licensed family and marriage therapist and former sexual addict explains “The most important thing you can do if you’re struggling with sexual addiction is tell someone.” (Interview, IVPress, March 2010).
Years ago, after harboring fear and deeply buried shame for myself I finally realized I needed help, too. I confessed to my husband. Perhaps it seems small, but what I shared I knew was a growing fire; I was struggling with lust over a close friend of ours.
My husband responded, “Would you like to pursue counseling about it? Would you like us to stop communication with him? What can I do to help?”
This is a perfect response, but then, I’ve married a good man.
But even this good, handsome man doesn’t mean lust is a non-issue for me.
Want more? Female sexual addiction begins with lust. I found help from applying the cry of the tax collector “Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner” (Luke 18:13). Read how to work through this spiritual practice of inviting Jesus’ mercy into lust here Lust Alive and Well Among Women.
As always, your contribution to this topic is so refreshing!
I think another aspect to this silly idea that women are less sexual, not attracted to physical, is that it can even lead to confusion between normal desire and lust.
For a long time I felt very guilty for any sexual thoughts or feelings I had because I thought they were wrong and I wasn’t supposed to have them. After years of guilt and shame, I finally came to realize that actually it is quite normal to desire sex, to find men attractive etc. But I feared I was just this perverse, lusty lady!! Now, not to say that I don’t struggle with lust, that has also been present in my life.
But the current ideas around women and sex, particularly for those of us raised in christian settings where sex is taboo in so many ways, left me with lots of confusion about what normal sexual desire is and years of unnecessary guilt!!
C.J.
As always, thanks for pushing yourself beyond reading to engaging me. I love that about you!
Yes, yes, yes, there is so much normal desire and attraction out there that gets confused with lust. Recently read a helpful post on this, “How Modesty Hurts Men, Too”
How did you escape the guilt and shame? What helped you realize that desire is normal, natural and even God-given?
Oh thank you Jonalyn.
Wow LOVE that modesty article – it really sums up a lot of my own thoughts and conversations I’ve had around this topic!!
I have not fully escaped it but I’m getting there.
I have done a lot of soul work, read a lot of books and had some huge changes in my image of God and His presence in my life. As I see God as more loving, always present, attentive to my life, I feel more gracious and accepting toward myself! I’ve been really sorting through what is really from God and what is just messed up christian culture/patriarchy/misunderstood scriptures, etc!!
I was motivated to sort through this upon realizing that if I EVER do end up in a marriage, I don’t want to have a huge burden of confused/guilt-ridden/fearful sexuality to unload, I’d like to sort out much as I can now!
A good deal of growth has come from Ruby Slippers and this blog! Honest conversations here have been deeply reassuring that I am not alone, am in the same boat as many – that does a world of good in itself! And it always raises so many great questions about femininity and sexuality that I have enjoyed thinking through for myself. Helps get to the root of some of my beliefs and test their truth!
I am also just very honestly engaging and inviting God into this whole area of my life. Getting angry and sharing my confusion and fears with God has been helpful. Having it out with God can help – ya know – ‘God, I know this waiting is good and worth it but it also really sucks sometimes and I’m not always clear what is ok, help me!!’
As much as all this helped, I do still lose focus or patience or perspective and lust is sneaky. It’s amazing when I pay less attention to God how those things I struggle with most so quickly return! These struggles really do require attention and constant return to God, to not return to shame cycle but assess where I’m out of sync.
C.J.
Your journey of struggle, victory, honesty and growth are a huge blessing to me.
Thank you for sharing how Ruby Slippers played a part. That makes me want to keep writing and working for this.
The way you’ve plunged into growth and self-awareness is a great example to me, too.
I’d love to hear any list of books that you found particularly helpful!
Sure! Many books have influenced me along the way!
Books that were formational to changing/expanding/transforming my image of God were:
-Galatians
-The End of Religion by Bruxy Cavey
-The Naked Gospel (just read recently and found it actually answered questions the church or other books had glossed over or misinterpreted! Found it hugely significant in losing the guilt relationship with God!)
-The writings of Henri Nouwen, I can’t think of a specific title.
-I’ve also benefited from the thoughts of differenty mystic types: Thomas Merton
-Emotionally Healthy Spirituality (forget author’s name)
-Becoming Human by Jean Vanier is a beautiful book, read this while I worked at L’Arche.
I also read this book called The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron. It’s a 12 week journey to break artist’s block and encourage creativity. However, I found it really formative for my idea of God and reorienting how I spend my time, what I really love to do. She speaks of God (not necessarily the Christian one, you can interpret it as you please) but I chose to use it to connect with God and it was quite amazing. The book really encourages paying close attention to life. Not to let things slip by as ‘accidents’ but appreciate the synchronicity, that God really wants good things for you! Really good for struggling through issues of selfishness and appreciating how to live well, not feel guilty for treating self well! I was unemployed for a couple months and did the 12 week discipline for those months. It was an incredible experience, really pushed me through some issues I had, that I didn’t even know were there!! And it is great encouragement for creativity, and creativity as deeply loved by God!
I’ve also really loved getting to know the poems of Mary Oliver. I love anything that intertwines the spiritual and the psychological and the natural worlds!!
That’s a big rundown…and as for issues around femininity and sexuality – Ruby Slippers and this blog, I really can’t encourage you enough! I have found little other resources that I really find honest about women as on this blog. So, thank heavens for you, your writing has been a source of real comfort and growth for things that have been generally ignored! I pass Ruby Slippers on to any woman I can!
I am pursuing studies as a psychotherapist and I feel quite stirred by my readings on this blog to look into these areas of femininity and sexuality particularly in relationship to the church. Since they interest me and relate to me, I am curious how I could combine those with a therapeutic practice and connect with churches to challenge teaching on women and sexual issues.
Well, I have no idea how that will look, just ideas at the moment, but again, thanks for your contribution!!
Saw your tweet Jonalyn, you are more than welcome
I”m so grateful for this list and your cheering. It’s incredible to hear how Ruby Slippers (the book) has given you fresh eyes to combine psychology, sexuality and helping the church at large. That makes me want to recommend a new book I’ll be blogging on soon: The Resignation of Eve: What if Adam’s Rib is no longer willing to be the Backbone of the Church by Jim Henderson.
Fun title! great content!
Gratefully,
Jonalyn
I was recently in a conversation with a male friend when I was reminded of this article. While we were discussing the sex industry, it came up that he believed that there is no way a woman would ever choose to sell sex for money. Although I agreed with him that the vast majority of women in the sex trade are either literally forced or feel forced into it, I brought it up that some women (especially in places where prostitution is legalized) do choose to work in the sex industry. The only explanation that he could come up with for this is that the must have been abused sometime in their past to make them want to do that.
When I brought it up to him that he might be stereotyping women as less interested in sex than men, he agreed, but couldn’t see what was wrong with that idea. I couldn’t really articulate why it bothered me so much, but it really did!!
Any ideas?
Naomi,
Great example of the current belief that women are just not as interested in sex as men are.
Some ways to share that some women actually are interested in sex
-The Naked Truth about Women’s Lust
-ask him how many women he imagines visit chat rooms for sex, then use the stats in my post on Lust Alive and Well If he’s up for it, you can email him the entire post.
- ask him to think about this thought experiment: men are known to have an appetite for lust and to fool around on their wives. Okay, so who are all these men having affairs with? Is it only prostitutes? Or is the same promiscuous woman hopping from bed to bed? Or are these men having affairs with women who also want to have an affair? Ask him how many men he’s met who have had affairs and ask him to try to answer this question.
- Would some historical examples help?
- Suggest he check out these ministries: Dirty Girl Ministries and XXXChurch.com (note stats there, too)
- If he trusts Scripture you can share all the sexual references the bride makes to the husband in Song of Solomon.
But the best example would be to share that you, as a woman, also find yourself interested in sex. This could be quite awkward since men like him usually assume this is an invitation. That’s part of the problem. Men need to realize that a woman’s interest in sex doesn’t mean we’re indiscriminate or animalistic (as they don’t need to be either). This would be the most potent illustration. Of course, it would take courage and appropriate situation and knowing he wouldn’t mock, discount or leer into your admission. Is he safe to share this with?
I’m not sure that it would be safe to share, but I do feel like some historical examples would be helpful…
You mentioned the drastic switch from the idea that women were more lustful then men in the middle ages to the current idea that men are more lustful. Where can I find more information about thought on women’s sexuality in the middle ages?
Also, do you have any thoughts on why society has reversed these roles?
Good for you being careful to not share too much if he is unsafe.
I’d begin with Malleus Maleficarum’s statement and treatise for witch-hunting, used by Protestants and Catholics and endorsed by the Pope at the time. It has since, thankfully, been condemned by the Vatican.
Here’s a quote, All witchcraft comes from carnal lust, which is in women insatiable. See Proverbs xxx: There are three things that are never satisfied, yea, a fourth thing which says not, It is enough; that is, the mouth of the womb. Wherefore for the sake of fulfilling their lusts they consort even with devils. More such reasons could be brought forward, but to the understanding it is sufficiently clear that it is no matter for wonder that there are more women than men found infected with the heresy of witchcraft. And in consequence of this, it is better called the heresy of witches than of wizards, since the name is taken from the more powerful party. And blessed be the Highest Who has so far preserved the male sex from so great a crime: for since He was willing to be born and to suffer for us, therefore He has granted to men the privilege.[24][25]“ http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Malleus_Maleficarum
Why reverse these roles? I believe society tends to paint men with the lion-share of the powerful, dominant attributes. Patriarchy and the judgment after the Fall in Gen 3 is still at work, especially where Jesus is not loved and followed. In the Middle Ages a man showed his power by reason and holiness and so, of course, men were specially “gifted by God” to have these qualities. Not women.
Today, a man shows his power by sexual prowess, appetite, “spreading his seed” in an evolutionary sense and so, of course, men are specially or naturally predisposed to be the sexual aggressors, not women.
N,
I recently found this additional historical bit of evidence that Medieval men found Medieval women to be carnal and sexually insatiable. See this page from Power of the Weak: Studies on Medieval Women. http://books.google.com/books?id=Bhhu7D22oYUC&pg=PA11&lpg=PA11&dq=medieval+women+%22more+sexual%22+medieval&source=bl&ots=4OmNRW6a_x&sig=w8XLBO3e532boSyenl6hij84fnY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jwiGT9HwHYKQ9QT1idC8CA&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=medieval%20women%20%22more%20sexual%22%20medieval&f=false
I was kind of not on board with this post until a memory snapped into my mind.
I’m in the marching band at my university, and we have three male drum majors who just…don’t wear shirts (nor do a grand majority of others in the marching band, including women). But…the fact that we HAVE to look at them in order to play and march is just really discouraging. They’re all good-looking and I felt so, so ashamed whenever I felt attracted to them. I had a lot of trouble telling my then-boyfriend (now fiance) that I was really struggling with it. But he totally understood and wanted to help, too. It’s nice to have a supportive man in my life!
Thanks for posting this. It’s nice to know that I’m not weird…or alone! (:
Loved hearing your honesty! Yes, you are not weird.
I’m so happy to come across a WOMAN writing about a woman’s struggle with lust. I get defensive when books or articles on this topic are written by men. A man is not qualified to write about women’s struggles with lust becuaase they cannot know first hand what we really face!I have been struggling with lust for years. I am 23 and have been struggling with lust since i was around 12 or 13. I was exposed to porn around that age just like most kids. As a young girl I was VISUALLY stimulated by porn. I have never been into romance novels or love stories.I became a Christian at age 16. It took a while but I no longer watch pornography but I still battle with lust daily. From talking to other woman I realized I’m not the only one (woman hide it, I sure did). But time and time again I read “woman give sex to get love” and it drives me crazy that men believe this and woman do not speak up. God is fair he made BOTH men and woman as sexuall creatures. There was a Christian marriage website that I came across and it said “woman stay attractive for your husbands because men are visual and men stay emotionally invested in your wives”. No where did it say men stay attractive for your wives as if attraction and visuals are not important for woman as well. Not to mention emotionally investing in your husband is also important.Of course men typically are more covered up than woman in todays society so we are less distracted when we are in public, but if a man walks in the room in let’s say very tight baseball pants and no shirt women will be looking and they won’t be thinking about butterflies and rainbows. I’m not an advocate for womens lust but I strongly believe we should not feel like we are weird for feeling this way. I am not the exception either, this is very common amoung women but hidden! God made us with sexual desires! We should not have to hide or conform to the stereotype. If we have a sin we should be able to talk about it so that we can over come it becuaae the truth sets you free.
Jazmine,
I loved your comment. So glad you found me, too.
My fav line was about how no woman is thinking of butterflies and rainbows. You made me laugh! You’re absolutely right on.
This Wed I’m posting on modesty and how it has to go BOTH ways. Men can be immodest, too. Can I get a witness?
At the end of this week the “search” button should be up and you’ll be able to do more hunting around (e.g. search “lust). But until then, here’s a link of another Lust post that you might enjoy: http://soulation.org/jonalynblog/2009/08/lust-alive-and-well-among-women-part-ii.html
Hope to hear from you again and again.
Thank you for the link it was great. I don’t know why this is a topic so heavy on my heart but for some reason it is. I pray and talk to God and he always reminds me he is a fair God and mankind created stereotypes and has suppressed woman, not him. Can i add that in the time of Jesus Men believed that religion was for men and not for women. It was Jesus who broke that stereotype and made it clear that women have equal spiritual obligations and access to God. Its time to break this stereotype also.
I wish that churches would be more open to help women and address these problems which can really be a distraction from God. After writing to you yesterday I did some more reading about the topic and there was one Christian woman who was addicted to pornography for years. When she was explaining why she was addicted she mentioned that woman are not so much attracted to the visual of porn but to the emotional aspect. She said the visual is part of it but it is more of trying to fill an emotional void. I was on board with her until she made that statement my point doesn’t necessarily have to do with porn but what drives me crazy is this whole sex and emotions idea and that sex is the price we pay to fulfill our emotions. In other words we view it as a job. Of course if with someone you care about emotions become involved for both men and women but Why can’t people believe that when a woman wants sex or watches porn or sleeps around it is because she wants sex it is not because she wants to fill an emotional void. (Of course this can be the case for some women and men if they have gone through something in their life that makes them feel they are missing something)
Why can’t society accept that woman want sex and get aroused and battle with lust ?
Jazmine,
I think society would prefer women weren’t so voracious in their appetites. So when people downplay women’s attraction to sex I think it’s usually because people either haven’t met women open enough to share they like sex for sex and they feel uncomfortable thinking of women as sexual aggressors (doesn’t seem “feminine”).
I would say that all addictions or hungers are both physical and emotional, for men and women. But I agree with you that it’s less common to hear women, especially in the Christian culture testify that sex ITSELF is really attractive and enjoyable.
I believe the church lacks a positive theology of desire. That’s one thing I’m trying to work on changing in this blog.
And yes, I agree with your point that historical it was women who were seen as carnal, voracious sexual animals… and men were the rational, temperate ones. My how things have changed!